With the current way they are worded their buffs only apply to 'you' , the character. Maaaaaaaybe they did this to prevent the buff being applied to your team mates as maybe this gem is supposed to be kinda personal and running more than 3 in parties could become useless. The thing is though , a minion gem should not be giving more to non summoners . A summoner is supposed to be specialized in well summons. and suddenly we get 3 MINION gems that barely support a summoner in the way he needs , affecting its summons. It is so counter intuitive it is not even funny . Imagine if melee physical damage offered 10% critical damage to ranged attacks. or vigilant strike could be used with bows but it count only as a basic attack and it gave you 25% damage instead of 25% defenses.
The point is , we have this really cool gems that benefit a lot from you if you take minion gems but the way you and your playstyle could benefit the most from these gems would be not investing on them at all or slightly , its a stupid concept. I would like and understand this IF they benefited players who did not invest on them TOO but benefiting only those who don`t invest in them is super stupid.
I don`t know , i think GGG had a brain fart with these , i kinda understand their purpose but investing in something should never be worse for you if you did not invest at all
EDIT: So GGG confirmed that their buff applies only to the owner.

Last edited by MadBro_ on Apr 18, 2015, 12:59:59 PM

Posted by
on Apr 17, 2015, 1:25:48 PM

until it does buff minions, most serious summoners will use an aura bro guardian in a 0l over using a golem unless the golem does over 3 specters worth of damage or does the job of at-least 9 zombies.

Posted by
Saltychipmunk
on Apr 17, 2015, 4:22:21 PM

may be is not intended to be used by summoners, like a companion minion not a summoner minion.

self found league fan
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1

Posted by
caboom
on Apr 17, 2015, 4:58:22 PM

'

until it does buff minions, most serious summoners will use an aura bro guardian in a 0l over using a golem unless the golem does over 3 specters worth of damage or does the job of at-least 9 zombies.

Why not use spectres/zombie's and a golem?
From what we can gather of the video's they seem formidable companions with a solid AI.
Unlike that other gaurdian type :p?
I mean a mortar turret for your army sounds legit (fire golem) etc.
We should wait until they are released to make our minds up though.
Peace,
-Boem-
edit : it's also worth noting that they require nothing to be summoned. So they can augment your army for a single gem slot without further investment.

Questionnaire on cognitive dissonance,
If = a transwomen joins a womens group and interupts women from speaking
does = she exhibit male privilege and toxic masculinity?

Posted by
Boem
on Apr 17, 2015, 5:08:17 PM

'

'

until it does buff minions, most serious summoners will use an aura bro guardian in a 0l over using a golem unless the golem does over 3 specters worth of damage or does the job of at-least 9 zombies.

Why not use spectres/zombie's and a golem?
From what we can gather of the video's they seem formidable companions with a solid AI.
Unlike that other gaurdian type :p?
I mean a mortar turret for your army sounds legit (fire golem) etc.
We should wait until they are released to make our minds up though.
Peace,
-Boem-
edit : it's also worth noting that they require nothing to be summoned. So they can augment your army for a single gem slot without further investment.

as with everything. gem constraints.
4l for the zombies chest for the specters
4l for auras
4l or curse on hit curses
3l for offerings 3 for utility skills like vaal skills guardians, totems
and the unsets for convocation and desecrate.
not much room for a golumn in there without sacrifing skills that could buff the damage of your entire army by 50 - 100% or double their durability . etc. and certainly not much room for a 4l for a golem.
but as i said in another thread. these minions (golems) are probably not for summoners at all.
but part of me is a little sad that of all the minion builds that might be able to use it (SRS), srs is the one build that does not need a golem
0 linked damage skills dont augment much of anything. that honor is often reserved for support skills that have almost zero viable supports to begin with and are naturally powerful on their own.
But i think it is safe to assume ggg wont put a minion in that is competitive as a 0 link or a fully linked one would be op.

Last edited by Saltychipmunk on Apr 17, 2015, 6:01:20 PM

Posted by
Saltychipmunk
on Apr 17, 2015, 5:59:30 PM

How about fitting them into your zombie's link?
+2 helmet
zombie's/empower/minion damage/golem
given there utility and attacks, might very well be worth it.
I am assuming the zombie's only act like a meathshields anyway and serve not much other purpose in a spectre build?
The golem would be a hybrid shield/dps unit in this case, buffed by your passive tree and empower/+2helm/minion damage.
Peace,
-Boem-

Questionnaire on cognitive dissonance,
If = a transwomen joins a womens group and interupts women from speaking
does = she exhibit male privilege and toxic masculinity?

Posted by
Boem
on Apr 17, 2015, 6:10:54 PM

'

How about fitting them into your zombie's link?
+2 helmet
zombie's/empower/minion damage/golem
given there utility and attacks, might very well be worth it.
I am assuming the zombie's only act like a meathshields anyway and serve not much other purpose in a spectre build?
The golem would be a hybrid shield/dps unit in this case, buffed by your passive tree and empower/+2helm/minion damage.
Peace,
-Boem-

pff well why do that when you can have beast zombies with multistrike fortify and melee splash/empower/melee phys damage/minion heal depending by the build and purpose. I don`t think you have ever tried zombies with multistrike , from my experience they are absolutely horrible without ms. Also fortify is a freaking must if you want tanks and a bit of damage for your minions. Both of these gems that imo are essential to zombies in the new act do pretty much shit for golems because they have mixed kind of attacks and they are not that agressive .
They are more of a companion /meat shield / off damage dealer and they neeeeeeeeeed that buffs minions too to become something usuable from summoners. The point i am trying to make tho is that minion gems should definitely benefit more people who invest in them , attack gems should definitely benefit more chars that focus on weapon damage attack speed , spells for chars that focus on spell damage and cast speeed , melee gems melee , chaos gems chaos damage dealers etc . Its only logic that it works like this , this does not mean they don`t have to WORK with other kind of chars , this only means they have to work BETTER with their type of build. I don`t know , god seems like i am explaining 2+2=4

Posted by
on Apr 17, 2015, 7:54:22 PM

'

'

How about fitting them into your zombie's link?
+2 helmet
zombie's/empower/minion damage/golem
given there utility and attacks, might very well be worth it.
I am assuming the zombie's only act like a meathshields anyway and serve not much other purpose in a spectre build?
The golem would be a hybrid shield/dps unit in this case, buffed by your passive tree and empower/+2helm/minion damage.
Peace,
-Boem-

pff well why do that when you can have beast zombies with multistrike fortify and melee splash/empower/melee phys damage/minion heal depending by the build and purpose. I don`t think you have ever tried zombies with multistrike , from my experience they are absolutely horrible without ms. Also fortify is a freaking must if you want tanks and a bit of damage for your minions. Both of these gems that imo are essential to zombies in the new act do pretty much shit for golems because they have mixed kind of attacks and they are not that agressive .
They are more of a companion /meat shield / off damage dealer and they neeeeeeeeeed that buffs minions too to become something usuable from summoners. The point i am trying to make tho is that minion gems should definitely benefit more people who invest in them , attack gems should definitely benefit more chars that focus on weapon damage attack speed , spells for chars that focus on spell damage and cast speeed , melee gems melee , chaos gems chaos damage dealers etc . Its only logic that it works like this , this does not mean they don`t have to WORK with other kind of chars , this only means they have to work BETTER with their type of build. I don`t know , god seems like i am explaining 2+2=4

I have tried zombie's with multistrike, and i quickly replaced that gem with a simple faster attacks.
What use is a zombie hitting air two times after it killed its initial target?
'-.-
Preferences i suppose, but i happily get zombie's that kill anything in a single hit and not waste time then zombie's that require 3 hits or 1 hit and wiffle at air 2x.
As to your second part, they are labeled 'minions' thus they get more out of being a summoners companion then a character without investment in minion nodes.
Bleh its like i am explaining 2+2=4 here. (see what i did there, i to, can play that game though i don't like it very much)
also my response was to salty, as a possible solution to his gem slot issue, which i know is relevant to all summoners alike. Possible being the main key-word in that phrase.
U mad bro?
Peace,
-Boem-

Questionnaire on cognitive dissonance,
If = a transwomen joins a womens group and interupts women from speaking
does = she exhibit male privilege and toxic masculinity?

Posted by
Boem
on Apr 17, 2015, 8:03:07 PM

'

I have tried zombie's with multistrike, and i quickly replaced that gem with a simple faster attacks.
What use is a zombie hitting air two times after it killed its initial target?
'-.-
Preferences i suppose, but i happily get zombie's that kill anything in a single hit and not waste time then zombie's that require 3 hits or 1 hit and wiffle at air 2x.
As to your second part, they are labeled 'minions' thus they get more out of being a summoners companion then a character without investment in minion nodes.
Bleh its like i am explaining 2+2=4 here. (see what i did there, i to, can play that game though i don't like it very much)
also my response was to salty, as a possible solution to his gem slot issue, which i know is relevant to all summoners alike. Possible being the main key-word in that phrase.
U mad bro?
Peace,
-Boem-

they technically do get more from minion nodes to be sure.. but do they get enough to be competitive with other minions? considering the disaster that is animate guardian. my money is on some where between no and hell no .
as for multi strike , it meshes better if you have other attack speed sources. many summoners run haste, flesh offering + the 20% attack speed from the tree for 80 -90% attack speed 150% if vaal haste is thrown in so the 50% from faster attacks isn't nearly as attractive. also multi strike gets increase damage as it levels.
generally speaking zombies arent for clear speed , they are for single target, srs and specters are clear speed.
zombies with multi strike or faster attacks simply hit too slow regardless to be good clearers. i mean it is like using heavy strike as a mob clearer.
and if a mob / boss moves around use temp chains

Last edited by Saltychipmunk on Apr 17, 2015, 10:17:30 PM

Posted by
Saltychipmunk
on Apr 17, 2015, 10:16:30 PM

wow nice you don`t even get 2+2=4 . First multistrike zombies vs no multistrike zombies is like any melee skill with mulstrike vs any melee skill without multistrike. Overkill rarely happens with zombies and wow if you have gone past ledge you will have enough attack speed with haste and flesh offering that even if zombies overkill (which tbh its pretty rare) they stay locked for a fragment of a second . This is always if you have gone past cruel ledge with a summoner.Not only that but multistrike also makes them connect their attacks better because once they kill a target multistrike forces them to directly move to the other one , thing that again does not work without it because they sometimes brain fart and stop attacking for a bit. Again this is only if you have gone past cruel ledge with a summoner.
Now i thought i made myself clear in saying why summoners don`t actually benefit the most from these golems . Yes they have more hp , yes they have more damage and more hp but i think you know that to make skills in PoE really shine or benefit you , you need actual support gems you know. No matter how tanky and strong the attacks of this golems are , if these are substantially better than most of the skills in PoE generic increased modifiers wont be enough for them as it wont be enough for flame blast to have just a 60% spell damage wand. Again if you have gone past cruel ledge with a summoner you would know that WE HAVE NO SPOTS LEFT. Like none , ZERO , nada. So if we wanna make a space for these golems we have to make space. Lets explore the possibilities.
You said place in +2 level minion gems together with zombies and i told you why that would not obviously work. They don`t even have a reliable melee attack to use fortify support gem.
Well lets try to replace the spectres with them then , well hah look at this. We can only have one of them at a time, wow that sucks. Even if we could get more kinds of them the only way to make two of them have a global damage increase except minion damage would be cold/fire penetration. So maybe if we can have multiple ones of the same kind we can discuss that possibility but till this moment it does not seem possible .
What`s the conclusion ? Well oh dang we can`t use them as truly tanky minions without screwing zombies that are a most efficent meat shield because they are too many , we cant have them both because low efficency and we cant have them do damage like sceptres because oh well one of them , too large of a skill pool that are not similar.Well what can we use them fore then? A freaking fucking buff ! The same everybody is going to use them for , the buff and some semi tank/damage abilities just like Herald of thunder . Now why the fuck shouldn`t summoners have this buff even if they actually invest the most in this minion kind? Why should summoners be stuck between bad and really bad?
Everybody else is going to use them in one or two slots after linking them with minion life , we will maybe save a slot and have less utility and help in the end. Thats the absurd part.Less investing = more utility , more investing =less utility.
THanks for being super predictable , i am not mad , i just know a lot more about summoners than you do.

Last edited by MadBro_ on Apr 17, 2015, 10:24:43 PM

Posted by
on Apr 17, 2015, 10:21:06 PM

hi all,
I'm trying to play a summoner witch and I have a question: what does influence minion's damage (zombies spectres and skelets)???
I have to choose a weapon with high phisical damage?? or I have to increase strengh or they use my intelligence statistic (I've already selected all passive minions skill points).
My playgame style is to summon all minions and then cast spell as fireball.
thanks in advance.
:)

Last bumped on Dec 29, 2017, 12:50:03 PM

Posted by
malcolm76
on Dec 15, 2017, 6:20:30 PM

Your weapon damage has nothing to do with your minions. You want passive skill tree nodes and skill gems that increase minion damage, like the Minion Damage Support gem.

Posted by
on Dec 15, 2017, 8:20:00 PM

Minions do not scale with weapons. They scale with the level of the minion gem that is used linked support gems and their gem level, (if using raise spectre) the level of the corpse that is being raised, minion damage from the passive skill tree as well as auras that affect them.
I would suggest you follow a guide if you wish to play a summoner from the witch forums. Different minion types (zombies, raging spirits, golems, raise spectre(you can ressurect any mob in the game and they all function differently from '1 of them destroyed every enemy on screen' to just plain useless) make for a whole lot of combinations and possibilities.
Summoner builds are very cheap and have very high potential (they can do all content in the game), but to get there they require specific setups.
Hybrid builds, like using minions to damage and then trying to deal damage your self, are jack of all trades. And when I say jack of all trades i do not mean a 'i can do everything good', i mean 'i dont do crap anywhere and this build sucks.' Focus on 1 mehanic and use everything else to enhance it.

Posted by
TrexerPoE
on Dec 29, 2017, 12:50:03 PM